True depiction of Etsy’s practices applying a bit of humor to make it digestible as the reality is no laughing matter. Their unprofessionalism and double standards really destroy lives.
Most of the press we encounter about Etsy talks about how great and innovative of a company it is and how they give small artists and artisans a chance to sell their wares in a global market. But that is only a partial truth, no one is talking about what happens behind the scenes, about the corpses scattered all over and the lives left in ruins along the way.
Yes, darling Etsy has been abusing its power and victimizing sellers with a very flawed, discriminatory, arbitrary and ineffective Integrity Policy, in which many shops are shut down without any evidence of misdoing or any legitimate explanation. Many of these sellers are genuine craftsmen following all the rules and whose only income is derived from Etsy. Some of these sellers are people who have been building a business and reputation for years and are left with nothing as Etsy with the click of a button erases all, even their feedback history which is the core of someone’s commercial history online.
Etsy has a very discriminatory way of applying their so-called Integrity Policy, they react to reports of Etsy members, usually sellers, who can anonymously and freely flag any store without having to produce any evidence of violation, Etsy then make some of these flagged shops a target and overlook others, needless to say that some of the targeted shops belong to legitimate artisans and some of the overlooked ones are from resellers of mass-produced items. Many of these targeted sellers are bullied and harassed, asked to proof themselves time and time again with poorly designed and inconclusive processes that are arduous and take many hours, some others are simply kicked out without having the opportunity to defend themselves or being offered a legitimate explanation or in many cases citing a violation that doesn’t exist anywhere in their TOU or one that has been interpreted at their whim. All this happens while many infractors are left totally undisturbed.
BUT IF ETSY NEGLECT THEIR DUTIES TOWARDS SHOPS THAT ARE BLATANTLY BREAKING THE RULES, AND THEY THEMSELVES VIOLATE THEIR OWN RULES SO OFTEN, WHAT KIND OF MORAL AUTHORITY CAN THEY CLAIM IN ORDER TO SHUT DOWN A SINGLE SHOP?
Being realistic, even if their Integrity procedures were efficient and transparent, in most cases is almost impossible to prove if an item was produced by the owner of the shop or someone else, or if certain vintage piece is older than 20 years. So the arbitrary and frenzied “cleaning” they are engaged on added to the incompetence of their Integrity Team, becomes more of a blind witch hunt inside their little Dictatorial Regime, that is hurting more innocents than culprits. Haven’t they realized their system doesn’t work and that this is not the middle ages nor are they an Independent Republic?
Their vague “DOs and DON’Ts” leave tons of room for unsavory characters to get in disguised as craftsmen/artists and also allows Etsy to accommodate and bent these policies according to their convenience, which they do without any hesitation.
But if you are among the many Etsy community members who is already aware of the situation, you also know that you are forced to keep your mouth shut, as criticizing them in any way, shape or form will get you expelled and “excommunicated” faster than you can say “oh!”, you won’t even be able to do shopping there ever again. No, this is not a joke! This is their idea of business in the 21st century.
So if you are part of the 25 million members of the Etsy community who believe this kind of behavior doesn’t affect you or will never apply to you, because you have been there for years, always follow the rules, or are just a buyer not a seller, think again, this can happen to anyone and affects everyone.
Lets dissect the anatomy of the damage with the following case study in which we will focus on one shop that has been reported many times and for some reason Etsy allows it to keep running. Etsy knows who we’re talking about so here we will call it XYZ, not because we feel the need to protect its identity, but because there are many like it and then we will need to name all the cases we have identified.
XYZ has been in business for a little over 2 years, it sells “handmade” jewelry by a very talented girl, so much so, that up to today (when this article was published) she has sold over 15.000 items (not cheap ones). Her sales triplicated in 2012 (to about $400,000-$450,000 in gross sales), the only problem is that about 80% of her sales come from items manufactured in India, specially gold vermeil bezel set gemstone rings, but bangles and earrings also. But she is talented alright, she has managed to fool thousands of buyers under Etsy’s watch. Here is the breakdown:
- XYZ buys her finished rings from India at about USD$8 or probably less as she buys them in the thousands.
- Because she claims these rings to be handmade directly by her or her “collective”, she is able to charge anywhere from $56 to $66 per ring (although the manufacturer charges her the same amount of money for all rings, as the different stones used are in the same low price range category).
- She is able to sell them at these ridiculously high prices because people are buying them under false pretenses. Exact same rings sell in ground-floor retail stores in Mid-town Manhattan for $25, although physical stores have to pay rent and overhead, XYZ doesn’t.
- BUYER HAS THEN BEEN MERCILESSLY RIPPED-OFF AND DECIVED.
- As XYZ sells anywhere from 15 to 50 rings per day (subject to time of year, discounts, etc.), is taking a lot of business from legitimate jewelry makers.
- Legitimate jewelry makers are also forced into unfair competition or not to compete at all since many of them can’t or won’t produce such big amounts of rings per day.
- Legitimate jewelry makers leave and the genuine artisan community shrinks.
- Other people see XYZ is getting away with it so easily, is an invitation for them to do the same.
- If Etsy’s very intelligent and sophisticated SCRAM system (Systems for Catching Resellers and Abusers of the Marketplace) hasn’t flag this store many times already, means it is totally useless.
- The only reason this is happening in the XYZ case is because Etsy is allowing it to happen.
Now multiply this by the hundreds or thousands of shops in the different categories that are reselling mass-produced stuff.
How is this happening under Etsy’s nose? It’s a great question, they have been notified of XYZ for more than a year, all the info regarding the Indian manufacturer has been offered to them to no avail. Corroborating this story was as simple as visiting the manufacturer’s showroom in mid-town Manhattan (short ride from their Brooklyn offices), it was not a coincidence for XYZ to be selling the exact same jewelry items with the exact same shapes, exact same stones and exact same craftsmanship quality.
A big number of us who make jewelry and buy our gemstones from Indian manufacturers will recognize their finished jewelry offerings on the spot, it is actually very easy and does not require much genius or expertise, but why is that Etsy’s Integrity team doesn’t have the expertise (Etsy have plenty net income to hire as many specialized, competent people as they wish), or do they and they just turn a blind eye on these sellers because they produced them a lot of money.
These sellers also get a free pass hiding behind Etsy’s “collective” concept, but a shop that sells 30-50 items a day (items that are not made in a few minutes) is not even a “collective” anymore, it is a Factory! Etsy refuses to draw lines wherever is not convenient for them.
As harsh as some of this may sound to some of you, especially those who have no clue this is going on, know that it’s all true and verifiable! We know many of you love Etsy and your first reaction will be denial, but remember that the portion of the Etsy community comprised by very talented artists and artisans that you love and who in some cases are so altruistic to even donate their time and work to the noblest of causes have nothing to do with Etsy Corp, which is the portion we are denouncing here. And please, stop assuming that all stores shut down did something to deserve it. There are many people suffering due to Etsy’s injustices and the inhumane, arbitrary and unprofessional ways of applying their policies.
We, the people writing this article, are among Etsy’s latest victims and had to speak up, because what they are doing is WRONG. Etsy’s honest sellers and buyers deserve more clarity, more honesty and more equality, Etsy needs to stop the tyranny and the double standards!
Unfortunately, like many of you, small artisans and artists, we cannot afford to spend thousands of dollars going through JAMS Arbitration as specified on Etsy’s ToU or hiring a lawyer to right the wrong. The only thing we have that we can afford to use is our voices.
After this happened to us (our story here: http://wp.me/p3kXuD-V) we have spent many hours of many days researching in order to better understand the nature of the beast, we have read all the cases we have been able to find from people reporting the same or similar issues with Etsy (there are way more than expected, but these are just a few, unfortunately, most folks don’t report these cases publicly). But, in all we read, we found only one person claiming being successful in having her Vintage Shop reopened on Etsy and getting financial compensation from them, but she was lucky to have a cousin who is a lawyer and partner of a law firm to work her case. The rest of us will crash with the reality that no lawyer will take this type of cases, because the financial loses are not in the thousands of thousands and litigation costs will be higher than any gain.
If you are planning to open a s tore on Etsy, think first like a business person and ask yourself : “is the risk worth it?”. Or simply apply this mantra: “If the deal is not right, walk away”. Remember that is your livelihood that is a stake.
If you are already a shop owner these are some things you can do to mitigate the damage if something like this were to happen to you:
– Don’t make Etsy your only option, have other stores in different sites and if possible open you own website. Have plans B, C, D & E always ready.
– Keep PayPal as your checkout method, that way if your shop gets shut down, you will be able to fulfill any pending orders and save some of your reputation.
– Even if you can proof in 1000 ways you handmade your items yourself, you have 100% positive feedback and have been selling on Etsy for many years, don’t make the mistake of thinking you are safe and don’t put any faith on the fairness or good judgment of Etsy, because there is none. Once you are flagged by another seller or by SCRAM you are a target and if they decide to review your case, it’ll be done by a entry level agent with no real qualifications to analyze and judge your manufacturing methods/procedures, your materials, tools or any other document you present as proof.
– Don’t stay quiet; REPORT, REPORT, REPORT “Injustice thrives when good men do nothing”. Wait until the anger has subsided and report your case in as many places as you can, do it in a clear and concise way. You can do it anonymously, but let people know the items you were selling, this creates a record of which categories are being attacked.
If you are a buyer do your research before purchasing, you might find the exact same item cheaper and without any deception in a lot of other places.
This video depicts Etsy’s Integrity Team discriminatory and draconian practices.
SITES TO BUY AND SELL HANDMADE OR HOST YOUR WEBSITE:
http://www.artfire.com/ – http://www.luulla.com/ – http://www.zibbet.com/ – http://www.storenvy.com/ – http://en.dawanda.com/ – http://trembu.com/ – http://www.bonanza.com/ http://www.craftisart.com/ – http://www.shophandmade.com/ – https://handmadeartists.com/ – http://crafterstown.com/ – http://www.rubylane.com/ – http://madeitmyself.com/ – http://meylah.com/ – http://articents.com/ – http://www.silkfair.com/ – http://www.shopdelighted.com/ – http://www.craftshowcase.net/ – http://www.storemate.com/
LINKS TO A FEW OTHER VICTIMS’ COMPLAINTS:
http://www.handmadeology.com/etsy-shop-suspended-what-you-need-to-know/ read comments also, they are current!
AGENCIES AND SITES TO FILE A REPORT AND/OR COMPLAIN:
The following are excerpts from a Wired’s article - http://www.wired.com/design/2012/09/etsy-goes-pro/2/ – we have underlined some pieces we consider important and commented on them as well, here it goes:
“First, Etsy couldn’t keep losing ambitious sellers and forgoing future revenue. Dickerson saw a solution in improving the basic UI-making it easier for sellers to sell. In his three-year tenure, he’d already more than quadrupled the size of the tech team with that in mind.”
“Other shifts may sound like semantics but could have a profound impact on the community. For example, Etsy has decided to allow sellers to self-identify as “designers” -meaning they can outsource some of their production work.
Rules that once limited working with outside vendors or employees are being systematically reconsidered. “We’ve missed out on a whole piece of creativity,” says Lauren Engelhardt, who oversees policy matters for the company, “which is people who design something but maybe don’t have the means to produce it themselves-things that need specialized equipment or a lot of people with specialized skills.””
“The changes are a work in progress-“We’re still figuring out how to express it in policy language,” Dickerson says-but the immediate upshot is an effort to resolve borderline cases in ways that keep successful sellers on the site. The front line of enforcement is the community itself, users who flag a given shop for insufficiently handmade behavior. But if the shop’s practices are deemed to be “in the spirit of Etsy,” as Dickerson puts it, the sellers can work with the “Marketplace Integrity and Trust & Safety” department (which recently doubled in size) that helps shopkeepers preserve the spirit of Etsy as they grow. For instance, a seller who shapes wooden kitchen implements can have custom patterns laser-cut by a vendor, but should divulge the process on their shop’s About page.”
“Couldn’t the laser cutter be an anonymous factory in China, though? No, Dickerson says, because that would violate “community standards.” That seems vague to the point of evasive. The bottom line is that Etsy is devoting more time to what amounts to judgment calls and resolving them in seller-friendly ways. It’s an incremental process but a sweeping one-even hard-and-fast Etsy no-no’s like drop-shipping could be revisited.”
At Etsy headquarters, Dickerson offers a different take on the company’s goals. Some purists may not like it, he explains, but the site can’t just be a parallel universe where crafters quibble over what is truly handmade. Sellers have to think bigger if they are going to “change the way retail works from the inside,” he says.
AND BELOW IS WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS LITANY OF VAGUENESS AND INCOHERENCE:
Is clear that Etsy’s main focus is in keeping: “ambitious sellers” AND “keep successful sellers on the site”
- Although everyone understands that the purpose of a business is to make money, in Etsy’s case promoting and safekeeping ambitious and successful sellers regardless of where and how their items are produced (say factories overseas mass-producing finished items), is wrong and not what their mission statement, core values and how they present the site is about. Even worse is their discrimination when shutting down certain shops with no legitimate reason but leaving those “successful” ones opened.
This article also features a few sellers, one of them makes “handmade” bamboo clockfaces, these are laser cut by a company in New Zealand, but when Dickerson is asked “Couldn’t the laser cutter be an anonymous factory in China, though? Dickerson says No, because that would violate “community standards.”
- What is he saying then, that a seller can use a factory from New Zealand but not one in China? This is all very confusing and can only be interpreted as he talking out of both sides of his mouth.
- They seem very confused themselves in this race of theirs not to loose certain sellers but at the same time throw others out (the expendable ones), to pretend they care and are protecting the integrity of the site.
Here is one more incongruity:
“The front line of enforcement is the community itself, users who flag a given shop for insufficiently handmade behavior. But if the shop’s practices are deemed to be “in the spirit of Etsy,” as Dickerson puts it,………
And then in other part of the article he says: “Some purists may not like it, he explains, but the site can’t just be a parallel universe where crafters quibble over what is truly handmade”.
- First, how is that any seller/member is given the power to judge and report what is “insufficiently handmade behavior”
- Second, if no one can define what “handmade” really means and they don’t want people to quibble over it, why ask them to flag shops for not being “sufficiently handmade”
- Third, why is that Dickerson doesn’t define once and for all what exactly is “the spirit of Etsy”
And about this statement: “The changes are a work in progress—”We’re still figuring out how to express it in policy language,” Dickerson say
- The question is: if they don’t even have their policies down pat, what the heck are they doing shutting down stores, under what set of policies? Oh that’s right, the same way they have been doing for years, X polices apply to certain sellers and Y policies apply to the rest.
And lastly: Sellers have to think bigger if they are going to “change the way retail works from the inside,” Dickerson say
- Do they really think people are that retarded? They are not changing a thing just going back to the good old factory-made/mass-produced items. Which is totally the opposite of what Etsy started as and how they present the site, this is not a sin, but if this is what it has become, then they have to define the site accordingly and stop the abuse and double standards.
You judge for yourself!
The following are excerpts from an article published by the Wall Street Journal less than a year ago. It states that Etsy takes very seriously the Integrity of the site therefore hires “experts in a specific area”, to police the site and shut down shops that break the rules, but the truth is THEY DON’T, below are the requirements for applicants to “Integrity/Trust & Safety Agent”. It is an entry-level position that doesn’t require any experience in any of the categories sold on Etsy.
Among the other people with more seniority we found in this department, are: substitute teachers, a crime reporting ex-journalist, a photo studio assistant, computer techies, etc. It’s scary to think that people with no real expertise, who don’t come from any related industry and consequently with NO Qualifications, are the ones demanding proof and documents from you, reviewing and analyzing them, approving or disapproving you, shutting down your shop and changing your life with the click of a button.
Here is the article, we are focusing on just this one lie, but there are many other statements so refutable here we don’t want to spend our time on. You judge for yourself:
Busted by the Crafts Cops – April 17, 2012
Retail Detectives Scour Sites to Catch Factory-Made Goods Amid the Handicrafts
“To try to keep its offerings true to its mission, Etsy is increasing the number of young detectives the company uses to police its website, sort of a CSI: Etsy team. (Etsy’s CSI-related products include a “Future CSI” baby bib for $7.) The company calls the investigators the Marketplace Integrity and Trust & Safety teams. They spend their days scouring Etsy’s site to uphold its rules: No factory-made goods, items that violate copyright, or offensive material. They shut down sellers’ shops that break its rules. Newly developed software is also used to police the site.”
“In the last year, Etsy, by far the largest global online crafts retailer, almost doubled the size of its policing staff to 16 people. Most of its hires are experts in a specific area—say, handbag making or vintage goods—so they can “help us ask the right questions,” of potential problem sellers, says Kruti Patel Goyal, director of Etsy’s policing groups.”
——– ——————- ———————
But who are these detectives? here are the real Etsy “detectives” and “area specialized expert agents” – Copied from Etsy’s job requirements for MITS agent:
“This is an entry-level position with potential for growth over time.
We’re looking for someone with:
· Relevant experience in online policy enforcement
· High level of web savvy with excellent Internet research skills
· Fraud investigation, risk management, and e-commerce experience preferred, but not required
· Excellent verbal and written communication skills
· Level-headed temperament and ability to apply policy objectively
· Leadership, organization, attention to detail, and time management skills
· BA/BS degree strongly preferred
· Fluency in French, German or Dutch, and knowledge of handmade/vintage goods is a plus”
Click here to see sreenshots of Etsy’s MITS Agent Job Description and Requirements.
Etsy demands proof to reopen our shops then rejects it – Our handmade is not “handmade” enough for them
After having made Etsy our home for 4 years and following all the rules, they shut down for good both our shops. Here we are sharing our story with you, providing all pertinent details and letting you judge for yourself.
The making of the cuff you see in the pictures was required as proof by Etsy, these cuffs were made at the beginning of last year, listed and relisted (the same one, as not a single piece sold there) on Etsy since May last year, and as most of our jewelry, these were limited edition (10 pieces total made in the only batch we produced). Note that each cuff is unique, the elements are free form and placed randomly, therefore no cuff is the exact same.
Etsy has been closing down stores unjustly, arbitrarily and indiscriminately for a while now, we didn’t know until it happened to us. In a lot of cases this happens due to reports sent by nameless and faceless members, who without any evidence and knowing nothing about you, report your store and make you a target.
The first time we had our shops suddenly “suspended” (that’s how Etsy calls a temporarily or definite shut down) was October last year, we were closed for a total of 7 days while asked to provide all sort of documents, images and other confidential information showing that our jewelry was handmade by us, we supplied all they asked for with extensive detail, including step-by-step process documented with photographs of us producing one of our gold plated brass rings, the one they chose.
After their review both our shops got reinstated (second shop was a supplies only store and got closed down by association) with the following message: “Thank you so much for taking the time to send us these pictures and information. We’re happy that you’re a member of our community and glad to learn that your items are handmade!”
The experience left us scarred, though, as your shops represent your livelihood and you consider them your home, waking up one day and finding yourself locked out is a huge shock, you feel lost, confused and so worried about the implications this will have with your costumers and your reputation.
But we hadn’t even recovered from this traumatic experience when just four months later, this past February, Oh surprise! out of the blue we found our shops suspended again and this time they wanted us to show them the process we used to manufacture one of our cuffs (obviously it had to be the most intricate piece we had in the shop), documenting all the process with pictures, just the same way we had done it before, but this time no other written statements or any other documents were required, only pictures.
We did request that they let us produce this cuff partially as it is a very time consuming piece and since it is a repetition of soldered pieces, making half of it would have showed amply the process we use and prove we made this piece ourselves, well, they refused and demanded we made the whole thing, so we did…but after having sent them all the images (see slide show in this blog), even more detailed than what we are showing here. This time our shops didn’t get reopened, instead we got the following message: “We’ve looked over the materials you submitted, but unfortunately, this does not confirm that your account complies with our policies”
So we wondered, what was the point of asking us to submit this proof if it doesn’t prove anything according to them, we requested a more specific reason as to why they thought this wasn’t good enough, and got this:
”Thank you for your email. Our team has reviewed this matter, and we have determined that we will not be able to reopen your shop at this time.
Upon close review of the documentation that was presented about how your items are made, we have determined that the items in your shop do not qualify to be sold on Etsy.
We wish you the best in your future endeavors..”
This vague answer was all we got, not even the decency of a concrete explanation or what policy were we violating. But wait a second, what??? did you hear that, the way we make our items do not qualify us?? Nothing in their polices determine how craftsmen/sellers should make their wares, when it comes to the tools or methods used or how many pieces of an item should be produced at one time, nor can they dictate that (or can they?). Our items are designed and produced by us, with our own hands in our small NY studio, and do not infringe on any of their policies and/or rules, so we’ll never know what they meant by “how your items are made..”
We think the fact that we sent a communication to Etsy’s CEO and to the Integrity Team after this second closing, pointing out the fact they that are doing nothing about big resellers but instead harassing and hurting little people, didn’t help our cause, Etsy is notorious for retaliating against people that criticize them.
So that’s the status, both our Etsy stores closed and erased from the face of the earth, when they do this they take all your feedbacks, files and commercial history with the click of a button. Our Accessorability jewelry shop was 2 years old and managed only about 150 sales, we had about 170 items listed when it got closed down (don’t think for a second that the shutting down of our stores is improving the sales of the person(s) who reported us). While our Gemarama shop was a supplies only store, it was up and running for 4 years, had close to 4000 transactions, 0 negatives and 3 neutrals. We first started Gemarama on eBay in 2007, selling only excellent quality, hand-picked gemstone beads and few findings, we moved from eBay to Etsy in Feb.2009, bringing with us many of our customers.
The way we see it is that we, along with many other shops fell victims to Etsy’s double standards and lack of professionalism, not to mention the lack of respect and consideration for the human beings that use their site.
So you guys decide for yourselves. Just imagine this happening to you!
This is our Etsy story, we wanted to share it along with some other facts that are hurting a number of people. We do this out of principle, because we consider these practices to be wrong, unfair and discriminatory and felt compelled to denounce them. Hopefully the story and data we’ll be sharing here will help you in some way.